Dan's Weekly Message

Two weeks ago in Haggai chapter two I saw some blank looks when I mentioned some passages on the Trinity. So let’s re-familiarize ourselves with some verses in the event that we are asked by someone to explain the trinity.

   The term Trinity is not in the Bible so the critics like to point out. But other words like Bible, Christianity, and incarnation are not in the Bible, but we use the terms anyway. As Christians we believe that God exists as three persons and yet is only One God. We know there is only one God because God has made it very clear to us. The verses below have God declaring He is the only God and He should know.

Deuteronomy 4:35 “To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.”

Isaiah 46:9 “Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.”

Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.”

Pastor Tim pointed out in Acts chapter 5 that the Holy Spirit is also God.

Act 5:3  But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?

Act 5:4  While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

I’ve pointed out also that in John, Jesus is God, John chapter 8:58 and John 10:33.

We will see this Sunday in Genesis chapter one that all three persons of the trinity are involved in creation. Therefore all three existed before time began and have the attributes of God. Jesus also gave us the commandment to water baptize in three names, or persons, but NAME is singular. The word “name” below is singular. Otherwise it would say names.

Mat 28:19  Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Now I want to look at my favorite Old Testament verses and the one I covered last Sunday evening in the Haggai study.

We now go to a book on prophecy. The book of Zechariah has a lot of verses on Jesus’ first and second comings. In the verse below notice that the LORD is the one doing the talking and I believe this is Jesus speaking to us since he says He will dwell among us.

Zec 2:10  Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for behold, I come and I will dwell in your midst, declares the LORD.

Zec 2:11  And many nations shall join themselves to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people. And I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you.

If you are explaining the Trinity to someone make sure they reach the conclusion that it’s the LORD or YHWH that is doing the speaking and declares He will dwell in our midst. Then in verse 11 ask them who the LORD of Hosts is that is sending the LORD? Ask them how the LORD can send the LORD? It only works if we have two persons with the same name.

  We know that we never build a doctrine on a single verse, therefore we need to look at another verse that brings out the doctrine of the Trinity. Let’s look at Isaiah for a moment. We will only look at a couple verses but if you are teaching someone, use the King James version and start at verse one to get a perspective of chapter 48. Make sure they notice that the person speaking in the chapter is the Creator and His name is the LORD with all four letters of LORD are capitalized. Also have them notice that God is spelled two different ways; GOD, and God. LORD and Lord. Sometimes all letters are upper case and sometimes they are lower case and it is not an accident.

  So let’s take a look;

Isa 48:16  Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

First we see God telling us this hasn’t been a secret. Also we notice that Lord is spelled with the “ord” lowercase, and GOD is all upper case. We need to make sure they notice this fact. Then ask them who it is that is being sent. Who is me? Then give them the next verse emphasizing that the One that has been speaking (me in verse16) is the Creator God.

Now for verse 17, this is the clincher.

Isa 48:17  Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Now point out God wants us to know who is speaking and gives Himself the name thy Redeemer. Who is the Redeemer of mankind? It’s Jesus. Who was sent? Jesus. Notice the Redeemer also calls Himself LORD God, which distinguished Himself from God the Father in verse 16. Also bring up that God the Holy is involved here and mentioned by name is verse 16.

   Also note all the information Jesus gives us regarding Himself in verse 17. He’s the LORD or YHWH, He’s the Redeemer, He’s our God. He teaches us and leads us as a Shepherd.

I hope this helps you with what God has revealed about Himself. We meet people that see or take pictures of cloud formations and they think the image is of God. Then they claim that they know God by the image of the clouds. Do they really? Does a cloud tell us that God loved us so much He died for us? Does the cloud say “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul? Does the cloud reveal God’s love for Israel or that sin separates us from Him. Only the Bible, the Word tells us these things and it is the means God has given us to know Him and love Him. But Satan will take us down another road of knowledge.

All for this week, God bless

I asked a Rabbi friend one time who the Angel of the Lord was. He said the Angel of the Lord had to be God. The scriptures give us no other option. He explained it like this; when the early morning sun shines through the kitchen window, our eyes only see white or clear light. If we put a crystal prism in the light it will spread out the light into three primary colors; red, green, and blue. It seems that God has three personalities that are manifest; the person we call God or the Father, The Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit of God. Yet like the light beam coming through the window, the three persons are only one God.

   The Angel of the Lord is also called a Theophany or Christophany, or an Old Testament appearance of Jesus Christ. I will now look to Old Testament and the New Testament to look for evidence for this.

  There are many references for the Angel of the Lord but let’s start with the story of Abraham offering his son Isaac for a sin offering at Mount Moriah. Let’s go to the point where the Angel of the Lord is speaking to Abraham.

Gen 22:10  Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. 11  But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here am I.”

Gen 22:12  He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.” 13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14  So Abraham called the name of that place, “The LORD will provide”; as it is said to this day, “On the mount of the LORD it shall be provided.” (Jehovah Jirah)

  We see here that The Angel of the Lord is very much involved with a substitutionary sacrifice and one that God provides. This is a beautiful picture of God providing His son who is Jesus Christ. You can easily graph out ten parallels to Abram and Isaac and God the Father and the Son in this passage.

Let’s look at another passage.

Jdg 2:1  Now the angel of the LORD went up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up from Egypt and brought you into the land that I swore to give to your fathers. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you,

If we study the journey of the Hebrews through the wilderness we understand that the Angel of the Lord took them out of Egypt. He was the cloud that protected them from the sun and Jesus was the fire by night. He was also the living water that came out of the Rock and talked to the woman at the well in John Chapter 4. Let’s see what Paul said about this and who Paul says the Rock was.

1Co 10:1  For I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2  and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3  and all ate the same spiritual food,

1Co 10:4  and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

The Apostle Paul makes it very clear that Christ was in the wilderness with the Hebrews. Let’s look at a story where the parents of Samson meet The Angel of the LORD.

Jdg 13:2  There was a certain man of Zorah, of the tribe of the Danites, whose name was Manoah. And his wife was barren and had no children.

3  And the angel of the LORD appeared to the woman and said to her, “Behold, you are barren and have not borne children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. 4  Therefore be careful and drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean, 5  for behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. No razor shall come upon his head, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb, and he shall begin to save Israel from the hand of the Philistines.”

6  Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. I did not ask him where he was from, and he did not tell me his name, 7  but he said to me, ‘Behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. So then drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death.’” :8  Then Manoah prayed to the LORD and said, “O Lord, please let the man of God whom you sent come again to us and teach us what we are to do with the child who will be born.”

The story begins with them thinking that Jesus is a just a man of God, but that will change when they get more information.

Jdg 13:15  Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, “Please let us detain you and prepare a young goat for you.” 16  And the angel of the LORD said to Manoah, “If you detain me, I will not eat of your food. But if you prepare a burnt offering, then offer it to the LORD.” (For Manoah did not know that he was the angel of the LORD.) 17  And Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, “What is your name, so that, when your words come true, we may honor you?” 18 And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?”

   The parents still don’t know they are speaking to God or the Angel of the Lord but my point at stopping at this point is that The Angel gives His name as we also know is a Name of Jesus in Isaiah chapter 9- read below and compare the Name Wonderful.

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The we see where Manoah and Samson’s mother find out they are talking to God the Son.

Jdg 13:20  And when the flame went up toward heaven from the altar, the angel of the LORD went up in the flame of the altar. Now Manoah and his wife were watching, and they fell on their faces to the ground.

Jdg 13:21  The angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of the LORD. :22  And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.”

  The conclusion was that they couldn’t see God and live, therefore they should die. But of course they saw an Old Testament appearance of Jesus Christ and lived. Yet they did see Jehovah God.

  Let’s look at another favorite of mine. This time we start at the point that Moses see’s the burning thornbush and has to check it out and then notice that The Angel of the Lord is in the middle of the thronbush.

Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. :3  And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” 4  When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”

Exo 3:5  Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.”

Notice it was the Angel who appeared to Moses and God who spoke to him. This can only happen when we have The Angle of the Lord being God. This could not happen if the Godhead was three Gods rather than one God.

Let’s now discover the Name of God;

 Exo 3:13  Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14  God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Exo 3:15  God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

   So God tells Moses His name is I AM and it will be remembered. Let’s go ahead almost two thousand years when Jesus used this name for himself.

John 8:54  Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ 55  But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56  Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

57  So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58  Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” 59  So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Now we see Jesus claiming that His name is I AM. This text when given to many of the cults who discredit Jesus from being God or a person of the Trinity, they when presented this scripture, conclude that Jesus was not claiming to be God. But if Jesus was claiming to be God then we can also say He was the Angel in burning bush that told Moses to take his shoes off. At this point it’s best to let the Jews who Jesus was talking to decide what Jesus meant when He said “Before Abraham was I AM”.

  At this point we skip over chapter nine and catch up with Jesus again when the same Jews pick up stones again to stone Him. He asks them why they are planning to kill Him and the reason. Their answer is very important;

  John 10:31  The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32  Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

John 10:33  The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

  So now we have their testimony. They know that Jesus was claiming to be God. They understood that His I AM statement referred to God in the burning thornbush. Jesus claimed to be Jehovah God and also the Angel of the LORD at the same time.

  The Angel of the Lord is in far more passages than we have looked at but the final conclusion is that the Angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ.

I had several good questions this week, but I think I’ll discuss this one. “When we see the creation account how can or why did God make light before the sun or the moon? Where did the light come from?”
Let’s look at the text;
We understand God made light the first day-Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
Now we see God didn’t make the Sun, moon or stars until Day 4.
Gen 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,
Gen 1:15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great lights–the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night–and the stars.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

We reason that light must come from a source such as the sun or stars. I have one of the newest LED flashlights that produces light without a tungsten filament. The light emitting diode just emits photons with an electric current. The first light didn’t need a thermonuclear reaction to produce light. God made photons and all the properties of light when he made photons. These properties are speed, polarity, color, and perhaps more properties that we haven’t discovered yet. When God makes things right again after this heaven and earth are destroyed, the New Jerusalem will have its light from God. Just like it was in the beginning.

Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.
I wonder what light will look like when it is coming from God himself. Will we have more colors than we see now?
We are finding out more about light and photons all the time. Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr argued all the time over quantum mechanics and what Einstein called “spooky” Science. It now appears the Bohr was right and Einstein was wrong. Part of the argument was over the speed of light. Einstein said it could not happen and Bohr said it could. So here is what we have found. We take some calcium ions and excite them and then drop the energy level and some of the electrons will emit a pair of photons. These paired photons are also called entangled and also “God particles”. Einstein said if this was ever proven, it would be just plain “SPOOKY”. Spooky because it would point to a “God effect” that is beyond our universe and understanding of the physical universe.
These two photons that were emitted by one single electron behave as one entity. They speed away from each other in opposite directions at the speed of light. If we route them through a fiber optic line and then change the polarity of one, the other changes its polarity instantly even if they are very far apart. Remember they are traveling away from each other at the speed of light. Since they are traveling opposite directions they are traveling away at 372,000 miles per second, not 186,000 miles per second.
Einstein said this was not possible for this reason; the two photons (light) are moving away from each other at the speed of light. If the one going east had its polarity changed and sent a signal to its entangled twin to change its polarity, then signal traveling at the speed of light would never reach the twin going west. Even if the east twin could send the signal west at the speed of light it would never catch the west traveling photon. But we know the entangled photons communicate with each other. Numerous tests have proven this phenomena.
So how does the information travel from one photon to its twin instantly? There must be a bridge in time and space. They call this the “God effect”. I believe it’s what the Bible says is holding the universe together.
We also know from the Pioneer spacecraft that it appears that the speed of light changes as we travel away from the earth. We call this the “pioneer anomaly”. Signals to and from the Pioneer spacecraft, as it speeds away from the earth and to the outer parts of our solar system, seem to be traveling at a different speed than the standard speed of light. It now seems that the speed of light was faster as we go back in time to the creation of the universe.
Many Times in the Old Testament God says this.
Isa 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.

Isa 51:13 and have forgotten the LORD, your Maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth,
Jer 10:12 It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
I think that when God made the stars, He made them closer to the earth than they are now. If they were closer, then we would see their light right away. Then God pushed the stars away from the earth at many times faster than the speed of light. So even though they are millions of light years away we still see their light today. I think this is what God means when it says He stretched out the heavens.
It seems that light has some of the attributes of God. It acts independently of time and space. Once set in motion it relies on nothing for it’s existence.
The more we know about light, the more science is pointing to an intelligence and power that transcends the universe. You and I know Him as Jesus Christ. The God particle or “God Effect” is also explaining another verse of the New Testament-

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

It does appear that there is a force behind the fabric of the cosmos holding everything together. That force is a person who loves us.
In a few months I will be teaching Genesis and creation again and we will look at these things in depth.

Below is a graph of the Kings of Israel you may want to print off for a resource.

God Bless

Dan

Tags: Creation, light sun and stars

Did you know that Joseph Smith claimed that the King James Bible was corrupted and he corrected the mistakes with his own version of the King James. It is referred to as the Inspired version and also called the JST or Joseph Smith Translation.

  The History of the Church, Volume 1, pages 368-369 is a statement from Joseph that he completed his translation on July 2, 1833.

  This is important to note as Mormons will say that the reasons the LDS Utah church doesn’t use this version is because Joseph didn’t finish it. Well Smith said he did finish it. My question is so what. If he claimed it to be the most perfect translation why don’t they use it? The reorganized LDS church does use it.

   The LDS church’s own scriptures orders them to publish this translation so the world would have it. You can find this in their Doctrine and Covenants section 124:89.

 “89- If he will do my will let him from henceforth hearken to the counsel of my servant Joseph, and with his interest support the cause of the poor, and publish the new translation of my holy word unto the inhabitants of the earth.”

  When you read the footnote above it refers to the JST.-

 By now you are thinking, what are the changes he made to his translation. I want to stop for a moment and comment on something.

   I’ve never been excited about paraphrases for one reason. A paraphrase is not a translation. A paraphrase is from a person that says they can say something better than God said it. The problem for you and I is this;

     If the author of the paraphrase has an axe to grind, let’s say he doesn’t believe in eternal security, what will he do when he comes to a passage that is clear on the security of the believer? He may slant it towards his personal beliefs. If he doesn’t believe in the rapture or the kingdom or that sign gifts are for today he may slant them to his point of view. So I’m careful about recommending paraphrases for people to read. I’ll always recommend a good translation.

   Now back to Joe Smith and his translation. Let’s see what he changed from the Bible to his “Inspired” version. Do you suppose he would slant his version to support his beliefs? By the way he didn’t know Hebrew or Greek, therefore he could not have translated it.

 Here is a verse from Romans in the New King James version; Romans 4:16 (NKJV) Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 Below is the Joseph Smith Translation (JST)- notice he added “works” to the verse-

Romans 4:16 Therefore ye are justified of faith and works, through grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to them only who are of the law, but to them also who are of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all. 

There is no manuscript that has “works” in this passage. 

Let’s look at another passage; 

Here is John 1:1 in the New King James; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² He was in the beginning with God.

 Below is Smith’s translation;

JST John 1:1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.

 By Smith saying that the Word is the gospel, he is taking away glory from Jesus Christ.

  The WORD is another name for Jesus. Below are two verses that say the Word is a person and that person is Jesus.

 (Rev 19:13 NKJV)  He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

 John 1:14 (NKJV) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

  Joseph Smith was proud of his new gospel that he claimed he was revelator. He continued to remove the Deity of Christ; instead of Jesus being life, Joe’s gospel is life.

 Here is another verse from the JST John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made which was made. 4 In him was the gospel, and the gospel was the life, and the life was the light of men; And the light shineth in the world, and the world perceiveth it not.

 Below is the New King James version; 

 John 1:3-5 (NKJV) ³ All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. ⁴ In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. ⁵ And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 I believe that anything we do to take glory away from Jesus Christ is a lie. A true Christian will always glorify Christ; they will not lower Him to the level of men. But below is a quote from Joseph Smith.

 ”I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (The History of the Church Volume 6, pages 408-409).

    The quote above was made before Joe kicked Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery out of the church. It was also before there were many church splits. But this quote allows us to see the mind of Smith and his pride, arrogance, and lack of worship and respect that he had for our Lord Jesus Christ. 

  You might if given opportunity to ask an LDS acquaintance if they use the JST and if not why not. If it’s the best translation out there, why not use it. There are some good websites on this subject. Here is the link to one.

 http://www.bibtruth.com/jsbib.html 

You can read LDS literature at their own website;     

http://scriptures.lds.org/   When you have some time go to this website and read Doctrine and Covenants section 132. It is the commandment to Joe’s wife Emma that allowed Joe to take more wives and if Emma didn’t God would kill her. The LDS church’s definition of Justification is taking multiple wives. 

Below is a couple of verses from it (Section 132) 

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law;

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and  cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law

62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

Emma put up quite a fight when she found Joe with Fanny Alger and Fanny got pregnant. She had Joseph’s baby at 16 years of age. You can tell by this section of Doctrine and covenants that Joe was putting pressure on Emma to let him have more wives. Like any false prophet he is saying that the commandment is coming from God.

  These are things I was never taught as a Mormon. I was taught that Smith was the one with the keys to heaven, not Jesus.

  I’m out of time this week. Have a great week and God bless

When I was LDS I knew that Joseph Smith used Martin Harris for some of the writing of the Book of Mormon and Oliver Cowdery for the second attempt but I didn’t understand or was taught what happened. I’ve read several books in the last few years that explain the circumstances and I find it somewhat humorous. 

   Joseph Smith would go behind a curtain and with giant spectacles would read the golden plates and speak in King James English to Martin on the other side of the curtain.  Martin would write down word for word what Smith said. It’s interesting that Smith said if anyone saw the plates they would die. Therefore the reason for the curtain, yet several men claimed to have seen them and didn’t die. Some versions say that Smith used the giant spectacles and others say he looked in a hat at a seer stone and translated by divination or what you and I would all witchcraft. 

  The Bible tells us not to use these things; 

(Lev 19:26 NKJV)  ‘You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor shall you practice divination or soothsaying.

(Deu 18:10-11 NKJV)  “There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, {11} “or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

 After Smith translated 116 pages, he asked Martin Harris to fund the cost of printing the book.  Well Martin’s wife wanted nothing to do with it or Joseph Smith. Harris took the book Of Mormon Home and asked his wife to read it and she would then understand why they needed to mortgage their farm to pay the printing costs. He assumed she would be a believer if she would just read it. Martin went out to the barn to milk the cows and when he came back in the house the book was gone but there was roaring fire in the fireplace. His wife Lucy had burned it while he was in the barn. He and Lucy separated after this.

  So after Martin apologizes to Smith and says let’s rewrite the book of Mormon. I remember some of it so we can do it faster the second time around. 

  Now put yourself in Smith’s shoes. If you really was getting information from God and translating the plates, it would go faster the second time around. But what if you made it up as you went and it was all a lie? What would you do?

    If Smith quoted new material, because he forgot what he read to Harris the first time wouldn’t Harris get suspicious and say what gives? Why do the plates say something different the second time around? Harris would know if it wasn’t the same manuscript. Smith has a major problem.

   I might add this is what makes the Bible unique. We have over 24,000 manuscripts of the New Testament that we can compare and see any differences. Out of 24,000 there are very few and none that change any meaning. We can take sermons and writings of the first and second century church writings and reconstruct an entire new testament except for 11 verses and they all agree. That gives the Bible credibility over any other writing of antiquity.

   Back to the story; what would you do if you were Smith? If this was all true, you would re-quote the earlier version and Harris would say that’s exactly what I remember. I think we have it word for word for what I remember.

    If this was all fiction and Smith couldn’t remember what he translated, he would probably do what he did. He told Harris that God was furious with him for allowing Lucy to burn the only manuscript that they had. God would spare his life but not allow him to help in the translation again. He also said that God was disciplining Joseph himself because he was not faithful in his translation. He was sloppy and changed some things from what God showed him.

   God was unhappy but would allow Joseph to get another person to write it down. And Joe would need to be more diligent in translating next time. The next person to write or dictate for Smith would be Oliver Cowdery. Oliver stayed active in the church until he confronted Smith with sleeping with Fanny Alger a 15 year old teenager. When Fanny could no longer conceal that she was with child, Joseph’s wife Emma ran her off and she married Solomon Custer and lived in Indiana until her death.

   Oliver said Joseph was not “sealed” to Fanny in the Smith barn, as Joseph claimed. It was nothing but a “nasty, dirty little affair”. Joseph excommunicated Oliver in 1838. Martin Harris was also excommunicated from the church.

    The second version of the Book of Mormon includes a lot of the Bible. Was this to make it easier in case third version would need be written? I don’t know. But I consider it a little humorous the fix that Smith got himself into by loaning an only manuscript to leave his possession.

   Have a great week and may God bless—

Lorene and I felt very at home last Saturday around born-again Christians at the Dixie center. No thoughts came to our minds about being different church groups or denominations, just believers to support HOPE pregnancy Care Center.  

  I remember years ago a LDS man at work criticizing Christians because we have so many denominations.  He gave this as proof that we are not the true church. I explained that we have different philosophies and minor differences but we all share one thing and that is we are all saved by the blood of the Lamb of God.

   He then said if we were the true church we would have no splits and have a living prophet that holds all the true Christians together.  I said explain yourself a little more. He said the LDS church is the true church because it has always held together. They have had no splits and Joseph Smith said there would be no splits.

   I then asked him who the Reorganized LDS church was, and the J.J. Strangite church, and the Temple Lot Mormons and the FLDS church were. Where did they all come from?

   Leland mumbled something and said he was busy. He would never discuss it with me again.  He assumed that I didn’t know about all the church splits in the LDS religion.

   But I have a larger point to make; we are criticized by the Utah LDS church that we Christians have problems because of our denominational differences. I say they have a greater problem. At the mine when we were closing down and auctioning off equipment we sold some equipment to some of the local polygamists. It was a hot summer and the FLDS polygamists would come into the lunchroom and drink water from our water dispenser. I had several Utah LDS men ask me to restrict the lunchroom to only company workers. When I asked why, they said the pligs, (they referred to them as pligs) made them uncomfortable and they didn’t want them coming into their lunchroom and ruining their day. I told them they would just have to get along and we would share our lunchroom and water with them. You could cut the tension in the room with a knife. They had a great dislike for each other based on their church membership.

 Well here is a question we might ask our LDS friends if given the opportunity. “What kind of a bond do you feel for your brother and sisters from the other LDS churches such as the Hedrickites 

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Christ_(Temple_Lot) )    , Strangites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Strang)  , RLDS, and FLDS people. ( I inserted web addresses you can go to and find out more about these groups.)

   I would point out that they all have the same core beliefs and they are closer to them than we Christians. Unlike us they all believe in Joseph Smith. They all have polygamy in their roots. They all believe in the Book of Mormon being the most pure of all books and coming from God. They each have a living prophet in their churches. They all believe that if you don’t follow the prophet of their independent churches you are lost.

   They also believe they can be gods someday unlike us. They believe God was once a man like us and progressed to Godhood.

    So if all their core beliefs are similar why the disdain for each other? These questions might make an opening for the gospel or at least open up discussion that might lead to the truth. I’m just always trying to think of new ways to open up a hole for the light of truth to shine in.

   Let me close with a copy of a letter from Professor Charles Anthon from Columbia University. Joseph Smith was trying to talk Martin Harris into mortgaging his farm to pay for printing of the Book of Mormon. (This is quite a story and not enough space to tell it all) Martin’s wife burned the first copy and she was convinced that Joe was a liar and a fraud. Martin needed proof that Smith was telling the truth about translating the Book of Mormon.

     Martin’s wife would not allow a mortgage unless there was proof that Smith was not a liar. So Joe gave Martin a little paper with some of the writing found on the golden tablet which Smith said was reformed Egyptian .  Martin took it to Professor Anthon to verify it. Anthon wrote a letter after he had more time to think about it and here is what he wrote. Here is the link; http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/anthonletter.htm

 Professor Charles Anthon Letter 

So if you hear me mention the Anthon manuscript you now know what I’m referring to- 

Have a great week and may God bless  

(1 Pet 3:15 NKJV)  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

I’ve had a few people tell me or e-mail and ask more questions on Mormonism. So I will explain some more but this is not intended to use in witnessing to them. I would not have been saved by telling me what was wrong with Mormonism. I was saved because I was told the truth about who Jesus Christ is and what he did for me.

   Let’s look at plagiarism today in the Book of Mormon. If you read a book of Mormon you immediately see that it is in King James English. Note that if the Book of Mormon had its origin 600 or 2000 years before Christ. The original writing would not have a King James flavor, but it does.

  When you read the Books of Nephi in the Book of Mormon and place a King James Bible alongside you will see that they are word for  word the same.

Let’s look at two passages to make my point and I use two passages for another reason that I will explain in a moment.

Here is (Book of Mormon) II Nephi chapter 14 verse 4,5

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning.

  5 And the  Lord will create upon every dwelling-place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a  cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for upon all the glory of Zion shall be a defence.

Now read (Bible) Isaiah 4:4,5, then compare them;

Isa 4:4  When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 4:5  And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

I want to focus on two things;

(1) – It was copied word for word in King James English. Hundreds of years before King James English was used.

(2)  The very last word “defence”, This word is “Chuppah”, the King James translators in their footnotes said they didn’t know what this word meant. They looked at the context and guessed at a protection and used “defence”.  Then along came the Dead Sea scrolls and new information. The translators did a good job but a better word in English is “canopy”. This why all new translations use canopy. Below is the English Standard version;

Isa 4:5  Then the LORD will create over the whole site of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, and smoke and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory there will be a canopy.

The “CANOPY” is still a defense and protection but if Joseph Smith was translating by the power of the Holy Spirit like he claimed, and he came to a word that earlier translator didn’t know, why didn’t he correct it then. We call this an anachronism when a mistake is copied over and over.

  We still have words in the Old Testament that we don’t know what they refer to. One such word is the covering of the Tabernacle. Some renderings say “sea cows” others “badger skins”. It is probably an extinct animal. The point is the King James translators did not claim to be inspired. Joseph Smith claimed he was. The evidence points towards plagiarism.

   But I’m not done yet, let’s look at another;

This time (Book of Mormon) 2 Nephi 15:25-

25 Therefore, is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them; and the hills did tremble, and their carcasses were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Now we will look at the Bible and Isaiah 5 :25 in King James (notice the chapters are exact, except off by 10)

Isa 5:25  Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcasses were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Newer versions say this:

Isa 5:25  Therefore the anger of the LORD was kindled against his people, and he stretched out his hand against them and struck them, and the mountains quaked; and their corpses were as refuse in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger has not turned away, and his hand is stretched out still.

The King James translators though “Suchah”  meant “TORN”. We now know that it means garbage or refuse. Their bodies were looked at as garbage rather than torn in pieces. It doesn’t really change the meaning of what God is saying but if Joe Smith caught the mistake we would have evidence that he was inspired. But just the opposite happened, He just copied the Biblical text word for word.

  We have other indicators such as the word “compass”. We use the word for an instrument that tells us where north is. Smith used it as an instrument when the King James Version meant to go around in a circle, “Compassed about”. Words change in meaning over time and we can use these changes to verify truth.

  Don’t be afraid of reading the Book of Mormon. If you do you will see things like Jesus being born in Jerusalem rather than Bethlehem.

I have more but I’m getting too long so I’ll close. Did you know you can set up your IPod to get automatic downloads from our church website? They will download automatically and you can also get alerts when messages are posted. Here is the link;

http://itunes.apple.com/podcast/southland-bible-church-st/id365416927

That’s all for today-

May God bless-

Dan

In our Sunday evening prayer meetings we have been praying for our nation and community and many of you have reported having many opportunities lately to discuss God and the Bible with people. Please keep praying for this community and that the Holy Spirit would do a work here.

  Because of your conversations with people the most asked question I have had is “When they ask the differences between Mormonism and Christianity; what do I say”.

   This is difficult because they (LDS Church) want us converted to their religion. They want to convince us that we believe the same. I’ve wanted to say; “you know we do believe exactly the same- why don’t you go to church with us Sunday or Wednesday night since we believe the same things”. Then see what they have to say to that.

  Our goal is to have them accept Christ as their personal Savior. When we tell them the differences they see it as a personal attack against them. If we attack their church, leaders or prophets they usually shut us down, they are programmed that way, I know since I was one of them.

  None of my friends or me came out of Mormonism and were saved because someone attacked our faith. We were saved because of God’s word and God’s word convinced us we were headed to hell and needed a Savior. Therefore I will give some contrasts between Mormonism and Christianity but if you use them please do so after a relationship is established and do so out of love rather than to win an argument. Also always give them Bible verses to back up what you say. Make them use Bible verses to back up what they say.

  Let’s look at some things;

  Who threw the first stone? In the LDS church I was taught that all of Christianity was wrong and they used Joseph Smith to support this. Here is the phrase and reference my LDS teachers used; The context is Joseph Smith asking God what church to join– pay close attention to what Joe Smith wrote down.

“I was told that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage [God] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrine the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power therefore. He again forbade me to join with any of them” (Joseph Smith – History 1:19/20)

Another leader of the LDS church stated this;

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

  I was taught from the time I started attending the LDS church that I was not a Christian but a Mormon. We were not to call ourselves Christian, because God called Christians abominations. It’s interesting that the LDS church has changed position on this.

  So what are some of the other differences we have? That’s where the doctrine of Angelology comes in. Who is Satan?  We know from the Bible he was a created being, an angel. He thought he could be God. He used this lie on Adam and Eve. It was good line, it worked they ate the fruit.

Gen 3:5  For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

   Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 tell us a lot about Lucifer, the Devil or Satan. I sometimes refer to him as LDS. But we believe from the Bible that Satan is not the brother of Jesus. But that is what I was taught. The LDS church is trying to change this doctrine because they know it drives a wedge between us and them. I’ve had some tell me that we are all brothers because God is the father of all. Therefore if we are all brothers then Jesus and Satan are brothers and there is no doctrinal problems. This is not what I was taught. I was taught that Jesus and Satan were flesh and blood brothers of God. They had the same mother in heaven.

  A friend from Richfield sent me the following page out of an old LDS church story book for children. The previous page talks about God’s son Jesus having a plan and another son ( Lucifer) has his plan rejected. The page below is what I was taught as a kid. It is clear that it was taught that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers and sons of God.

I don’t think young kids are taught this doctrine today in the LDS church. The church is trying to distance itself from Satan and Jesus being brothers. But if I was taught this was true, and truth doesn’t change, why is it not true today?

   We can’t accept any other doctrine except Jesus Christ is God. If he is brother to Satan then He is not the God of the Bible. Satan would also be God. Only God could pay for our sins. Any other Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible can’t save us. This is a very important doctrine and this is another reason Mormons are not Christian. Their Jesus doesn’t have the power to save them from hell.

My letter is getting a little long so I’ll close. Because some who get this letter have slow connections I won’t include another page from the LDS Storybook, but if you would like it I can e-mail it to you on request.

Have a great week, pray for our community here in Southern Utah.

Ken was covering in Sunday school that we are warned not to add or take away from the Bible. The more we know our Bibles the more we see The divine Imprint of God’s handwriting in the very words and letters of His Word.
Since it is His word we don’t have the right to change it. That is why there is a strong warning in the last book of the Bible.

Rev 22:18 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now we need to understand, other religions are not going to accept this passage if they have writings outside the Bible that they claim are scripture. This scripture in Revelation 22 is a death blow to all religions that claim to have further revelation outside the Bible. How do you expect them to respond to this passage?
Let’s see what their responses are. ( I obtained these of web pages of various religions)

1. The Revelation passage doesn’t mean what it says. It only refers to the Book of Revelation.
Here is how you answer that; John when he wrote this scripture the Holy Spirit had him use two different Greek words for this passage. Biblos and Biblion;

Biblion bib-lee’-on G975 -A diminutive of G976; a roll: – bill, book, scroll, writing. Small book.

Biblos bib’-los G976 – a sheet or scroll of writing: – book. Large book.
Lets look at the passage again and insert the Greek words in to the text.

Rev 22:18 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this Biblion, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Biblion:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the Biblos of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Biblos of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Biblion.

I think God set this up so it could not be argued that John was only talking about the Book of Revelation. Let’s look at their next argument;

2. Deuteronomy 4:2 says not to add or take away, therefore the Revelation 22 passage doesn’t hold water because Deuteronomy was written in the beginning of the Bible. Therefore the Revelation warning concerns individual words in the Bible and doesn’t refer to additional revelation or more books that God will give besides the Bible because other books were written after Deuteronomy.

Deu 4:2 You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you.

Answer; the difference between Deuteronomy 4 and Revelation 22 is that the Book or the Bible as a whole is not mentioned in Deut. 4. This actually gives more proof that Rev 22 is talking about the Bible as a whole since “Book” is not mentioned in the O.T. passages.

3. It doesn’t make sense that God would stop giving scripture and revelation to mankind. Man as he progresses needs more and more Revelation. Since God had prophets in the Old Testament we have them today.
4.
Answer; The Book of Revelation gives us prophecy till the there is a New Heavens and New Earth and God lives among us Himself. We have all the information that we need to live for God. Then problem of additional scripture being written after John is who decides what is from God and what is from man? Many many people have claimed to be prophets since the Bible was finished. How do decide what is true and from God and what is false. Jesus warned us about this happening.

Matthew 24:24 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 “See, I have told you beforehand.

(2 Pet 2:1 NKJV) But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

(Acts 20:29-30 NKJV) “For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. {30} “Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

Perhaps the best place to go is the early church since they had people declaring that they were writing new scripture and prophesying because they were having new revelations given them. How did the early church handle these people?

The group that gets a lot of attention from Eusebius is the Montanists, also called the Phrygian heresy. About 157 A.D. a man by the name of Montanus claimed to be The Holy Spirit and told two women Pricilla and Maximillus to divorce their husbands and be his prophetesses.

The Montanists were also known as Phrygians or Cataphyrgians because of their influence in the region of Phrygia. They were also referred to as Pepuziani because their ministry was centralized in the Phrygian village of Pepuza, which they prophesied was to become the “New Jerusalem.” His prophetesses said Jesus would come back to set up his 1,000 year kingdom before they died.

Eusebius (Book 2 .16) said he had refrained from responding because he didn’t want people saying he was adding to the New Testament. They were very careful not to write anything that even appeared as writing new scripture. They believed what John said in Revelation chapter 22.

Montanus claimed that he was above the Bible because he was getting new revelation. The Montanists predicted a world war in just a few years which didn’t happen.

They promoted babbling in church services which we refer to as speaking in tongues today. The early church didn’t take them to task much for this but they did for false doctrine.

The Montanists professed to be recipients of the “new prophecy.” This prophecy was more authoritative, they said, than anything the Bishops had to say. The Montanist prophets asserted that their charismatic authority, which came directly from God, was superior to the authority of the institutional Church and Sacred Scriptures (Bible). The “new prophecy” represented a revelation of the Gospel which had either been lost or was never really understood until the prophesying of Montanus. Because the revelations which were received by the Montanists represented a completion of progressive revelation, their prophetic revelations were considered more complete and, therefore, superior to the understanding of the original Apostles.

The church tested what they preached and easily found it contradicted the Bible. So besides adding to scripture they contradicted scripture. The church then rejected them on both counts.

There are some examples with disturbing contents which do not require much discernment to evaluate. Priscilla, for example, reports that Christ appeared to her in the form of a woman.

Since Montanus claimed to be the Holy Spirit, he said if anyone didn’t accept what he taught they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and Montanus.

They became more and more unbelievable until they committed suicide by setting a building on fire that they entered. What is amazing is that they actually had a large following at the time they died. They claimed to be the true church because they still had prophets and were the only source of truth.

But my point is that if someone comes along and says they have additional revelation from God, we have commandments from God to test them and if they are false then call them liars.

(Rev 2:2 NKJV) “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

We should be like the Bereans who tested Paul to see if what he said contradicted scripture;

(Acts 17:10-11 NKJV) Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. {11} These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

I sincerely believe we can test all who have written documents and have called it scripture since the book of Revelation and we would find prophecies that didn’t come true and contradictions to what God has already said in His word. Therefore when the Apostle John said don’t add or take away I think we have a good case for saying he meant at that point there (The End of the Book of Revelation) would be no more words from God until the two witnesses appear in Revelation chapter 11.

(Rev 11:3 NKJV) “And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

And the words they speak may be what God has already said in His book we call the Bible. We know they will not contradict what God has already said.

Much of my information comes from Dr. Paul Mair’s book –Eusebius The Church History pages 146-206 and other references below. Dr. Mair translated it into easy to read English.

Epiphanius. (From A New Eusebius: Documents illustrating the history of the Church to A.D. 337, p. 107)
Chadwick, Henry. The Early Church, p. 52
Epiphanius. Haer., 48:2 (From A New Eusebius: Documents illustrating the history of the Church to A.D. 337, p. 107)
Epiphanius. Haer., 48:13 (From A New Eusebius: Documents illustrating the history of the Church to A.D. 337, p. 107)
Eusebius. The Church History of Eusebius, Book V, Chapter 18, p. 231
Have great week and may God bless
Dan

Tags: Prophets today?

I had this question in the evening service a few weeks back and I’ll give you the verses I used, in this letter; What are the three heavens?

Jewish writers have always understood there to be three heavens. They understood this from the Hebrew Bible. We go back to the creation account for our definition. We call this the law of first mention.

Gen 1:6  And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7  And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:8  And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

As we study the creation of our earth we see waters below and water above this which God calls the firmament. Then God calls this firmament heaven.

This heaven we refer to as the first heaven which is our atmosphere, where clouds float and birds fly.

 Gen1:20b- and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

The second heaven is where the stars and planets move about what you and I call outer space. This heaven is where God placed the moon, sun and stars.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

We believe that the earth was like a giant greenhouse before the flood of Noah. What made the green house is what we call the water canopy. This water canopy was high in the atmosphere and would have held in the earth’s heat and protected us from harmful cosmic radiation. This giant watery veil would have produced the huge volume of water that was required to cover the earth even the mountains at that time with water. In chapter eight of Genesis we see that water came from caverns deep within the earth that gushed

forth water and the watery canopy emptied it’s water on the earth in the form of rain.

Gen 8:2  The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

The third heaven is mentioned all through the Bible. It is the multidimensional universe that God dwells from and in. Paul wanted us to know that when he had his death experience that he was in the third heaven which is where God dwells. Not in a physical universe that you or I can go to on our own. Paul wasn’t in the atmosphere or in outer space but in God’s presence.

2Co 12:2  I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

The third heaven is where Jesus Christ is today. Kent explained in Sunday School from Daniel that someday Christ will smash all the other nations and rule the earth. Jesus also explained that from Psalm 110. Here is what Jesus said concerning Himself. Read the following verse and when does it say Jesus will come back.

(Luke 20:41-43 NKJV)  And He said to them, “How can they say that the Christ is the Son of David? {42} “Now David himself said in the Book of Psalms: ‘The LORD said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, {43} Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”‘